Science, Psychology, and the Seven Chakras:

Integrating Western Medicine and Eastern Spirituality

An Interview with John Nelson, M.D.

By Mark Waldman

Dr. John Nelson is certified by the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology, and is a physician at a psychiatric hospital in Southern California. His book, Healing the Split: Integrating Spirit into Our Understanding of the Mentally Ill (Tarcher, 1990, 440 pages), offers a remarkable integration of Western psychiatry with Eastern philosophy, comparing the ancient chakra systems of Tantric yoga with contemporary developmental psychology. It is a metaphor carried out with the careful precision one would expect from mainstream psychiatric research.

Dr. Nelson was interviewed by Mark Waldman, a therapist, author, and founding editor of the Transpersonal Review. This interview originally appeared in Special Reports: Transpersonal Perspectives in Psychology Volume 4, No. 1, 1992.

Mark Waldman: John, how did you, a mainstream psychiatrist, get involved in spiritual and esoteric philosophy?

John Nelson: For many years I had followed the developments in consciousness research and transpersonal psychology, and although I had studied various Eastern and Western spiritual practices, I could not deny how valuable the traditional medical model was in eradicating diseases like polio and smallpox and in reducing the suffering of many who were diagnosed with mental illness. It seemed to me that many of the so-called "holistic" practitioners have virtually ignored recent advancements in biology and medicine. But as I continued to work with psychiatric patients, I became aware of a small but significant minority who seemed to be experiencing disturbances more closely related to the spiritual awakenings described in esoteric literature, and who seemed to be struggling to break through to genuinely higher states of consciousness. So it seemed essential to me to develop a theory that was capable of integrating these different poles of experience, which could more clearly distinguish regressive and psychotic behavior from transcendent experiences.

MW: Why did you choose to use the 2500 year old chakra system as a way for understanding mental health and illness, rather than, say, acupuncture or Taoist medicine?

JN: Although a number of models have been proposed concerning the various stages of consciousness and spiritual development, there was little agreement between them about what those stages were like. So when I came across the ancient Tantric teachings concerning the chakra, I found them to be an ideal metaphor to characterize the way we expand our consciousness as we progress through life. I was delighted, for it matched my deepest intuitions derived from my own spiritual practice.

Today, the chakra system remains a cornerstone in modern Oriental medicine and psychiatry, and is considered a "hard" science in Asian medical schools. It is integral to the practice of acupuncture, which is a proven technique of healing throughout much of the world. Each chakra level reflects a more advanced stage of development in terms of personal relationships, ethics, religious attitudes, and illnesses related to these situations. Furthermore, the chakras can be easily be viewed in psychological terms, as Jung did when he called them "intuitions about the psyche as a whole, about its various conditions and possibilities."

MW: One of the values that I see in your system is that it might help to bring together traditional and non-traditional practitioners and to soften the adversity that so often exists between these two groups, and it might open a few more doors to better understanding the Eastern systems of healing.

JN: That is my fondest hope. Unlike Western systems, Eastern psychological systems do not exclude humanity's spiritual aspects from its models of the psyche. We can view the chakras as archetypal themes around which human life revolves, and in which discrete stages of consciousness emerge to guide one's physical, mental, and spiritual growth. The chakra system closely parallels the Western stages of biological growth and psychological development. For example, the consciousness of the first chakra -- the Muladhara, or "root" chakra -- guides the

development of the fetus and infant, bringing together those unique attributes of the individual's personality which form the cornerstone of human life.

MW: So the first chakra is consistent with contemporary models of genetic and psychological development. How does this level relate to recent observations in early childhood development and the problems that may ensue later on in life?

JN: The first chakra is similar to what Freud called the oral stage of life. During the crucial three-year span that follows conception, the foundations of selfhood form within what is initially an unbounded field of consciousness, which is what I refer to as the Spiritual Ground. Consciousness is everywhere, and the newborn child lives within it in a state of blissful communion and unity. The primary concern at this stage of consciousness is survival and individuation. Western psychologists such as Piaget, Mahler, Kohut, and Grof have described this stage in great detail.

Now, the essential first-chakra task requires the infant to emerge from its primal, undifferentiated unity with spirit in order to develop adequate self-boundaries, which are essential for survival. It allows for an individualized sense of I-ness. A primitive ethical system imbues the infant with the simple rule that whatever fosters survival is good, and whatever imperils it is bad. But people whose self-boundaries are poorly formed because of genetic flaws or faulty parenting may become overly dependent and clinging to others. It may even lead to psychosis, and an adult whose consciousness returns to the first chakra is painful to behold. They might, for example, be obsessively preoccupied with food or drink or cigarettes.

MW: From what you say, though, the infant's process of separation removes it from its spiritual roots -- this universal field of consciousness.

JN: Captivated by the lures of the material world, most of us become overly sealed off from this fundamental source of our being. But sometimes fragments of this larger field of consciousness

may suddenly break through, terrifying us.

MW: And this is where so many people seem to confuse regressive, infantile states with these fleeting glimpses of pure spirit. What happens in the second stage of the child's development, the Svadasthana or sexual chakra?

JN: Transpersonal philosopher Ken Wilber called the consciousness of the second chakra "typhonic," after the Typhon, a mythological being who was half-serpent, half-human, an apt symbol for a time of life when a child rises from the murky realms of poorly differentiated selfhood to form that uniquely human, but ultimately self-limiting, entity known as the ego. Although many spiritual disciplines stress that we must eventually transcend the limitations of ego identity, it is certain that we must first develop this essential faculty if are to survive as members of a civilized society.

According to traditional Hindu texts, the second chakra governs the sexual organs, so it is not surprising that at this stage the toddler begins to search for its sexual identity. Now, the consciousness of this phase of life is characterized by a magical world of wish-fulfilling fantasy only partially affected by socially defined reality. Desire is the motivating force of second-chakra consciousness, and the child gradually turns away from unlimited communion with spirit towards objects and people of the material world. At this stage, the child's ethics are based on fulfilling desires as expeditiously as possible, and the chief ethical maxim is "don't get caught."

MW: I have often encountered people who imbue their spiritual quest with emotionality. They literally crave their gods or goddesses like a child craves love. Indeed, these people are often starving for love and understanding, but they are so filled with misguided fantasies that they have tremendous difficulties in handling the realities of relationship and work.

JN: This is true, for emotions and wishful thinking rule the consciousness of the second chakra, along with a kind of logic that is prevalent in a pre-adolescent child. Relationships during this phase of life are idealized and tinged with fantasy, and the child views others as larger than life, almost superhuman in his or her capacity for good or evil. Like the notorious "borderline personality" who has become fixated at this level, the child tends to see powerful people as either all good or all bad, with very little gray area in between. Adults who regress to this level often exhibit paranoid patterns in their thinking, or experience otherworldly hallucinations, as if they have opened an inner door to a netherworld populated by beings of relentlessly malign intent.

MW: At this level, according to some psychologists, the notion of an anthropomorphic God emerges, which is in reality the projection of an idealized parent onto universe. But in later developmental stages, a very different image begins to emerge. The Eastern notions of "Atman" or "Self," or Buber's concept of "I-Thou" are examples which come to mind.

JN: Exactly. This brings us to the third major stage of development -- the Manipura, or power chakra -- which exemplifies the young adult's aggressive quest for a career and a suitable mate. At this stage the world is perceived as a hostile environment in which the motivating force in life is manipulation and control. Thinking and logic take a quantum leap forward as the adolescent rises above loosely structured fantasy and engages the world in fierce competitiveness for wealth and sexual satisfaction. This is Piaget's stage of "formal operations," which indicates the ability to manipulate ideas as well as objects. Thinking becomes linear and bound to reason. But an ego-bound person fixated at this level of consciousness is quite alienated from spirit.

I would say that at this time in history, a majority of human beings have evolved to the third chakra and are deeply involved in countless variations of giving and getting that make up the acquisitive world of commerce. An individual in this stage of life tends to take life as it comes without wondering much about its meaning, worth, or purpose. He or she seeks enjoyment through the senses, or by cultivating emotional pleasures, material security, or achievement of personal ambition. Such a person tends to believe that the only reality is that of the physical world and is therefore strongly attached to earthly goods. The ego's task is to keep the psyche myopically close to the five senses and blind to spirit. Such a person would be uncomfortable with others who are operating on higher levels.

MW: Often they are skeptical of religion, spirituality, or any change or alterations in consciousness. And yet, this stage is essential for healthy spiritual growth.

JN: Yes, for as we gain the capacity to reason accurately, we can reflect more carefully upon our choices before we take action. Here we begin to see the emergence of free will, which demands, at the very least, a modicum of reflective reason.

MW: And caution, too, I would add, for it is a time when power and control can be easily abused, be it in society or within our religious and spiritual communities.

JN: That's unfortunately true. Third chakra religious beliefs are outward and conventional, with a preference for authority and dogma. But the ego still perceives God as separate from self, wholly other, watching and making judgments from above. It is only when we open the fourth chakra -- the heart chakra -- that we see the individual begin to rise above materialistic attachments, striving towards a more impassioned union with humanity.

In ancient Tantric texts, an exquisite galloping antelope adorns the mandala of the Anahata chakra. It is said that this shy, fleet, and graceful animal symbolizes spiritual experiences that move quickly, vanishing before the eye can grasp them. It is the first re-opening to the Spiritual Ground after three stages of alienating ourselves from it. At this level of consciousness, one is motivated by compassion, empathy, and devotion to goals that go beyond self-aggrandizement.

MW: This, too, has its Western correlates, particularly in the psycho-spiritual views of people like Frankl, Assagioli, Fromm, and the humanists. But it is not really something new, for Freud himself said that psychoanalysis was "in essence a cure through love."

JN: But the fourth chakra stresses something more, which is universal love -- what the ancient Greeks referred to as "Agape," -- a wondrous, non-possessive love as distinguished from the romantic raptures of the second and third chakras. Love at those levels is characterized by seduction and jealousy, dominance and dependence, and attachment to an idealized object. The aim of lower chakra love is to quell a feeling of emptiness, but at the heart chakra one feels an inner abundance that saturates the self with a desire to share freely for the good of all. Saintly figures like Mother Teresa, Mahatma Gandhi, and the Virgin Mary epitomize the consciousness of the heart chakra.

As our heart chakra opens, we first notice an empathic link with our fellow men and women, when, when coupled with compassion, becomes the most potent force of healing known. Compassion is a readiness to respond to the pain of another without aversion or resentment. Unlike pity, which is really a defense against pain, compassion acknowledges all human suffering as a reflection of one's own pain.

Relationships at the heart chakra move beyond competitiveness to become selfless and magnanimous. But sometimes a person can experience an overpowering sense of guilt for past acts of selfishness and manipulation of others and may attempt to retreat and reaffirm materialistic values.

Fourth chakra reasoning transcends formal operational thinking by synthesizing apparent polarities into mutually sustaining unities. Divinity no longer seems distant from the self, and may be felt to reside within. Now, some religions hold that this is the highest level attainable for human beings, unaware that there are even higher levels of consciousness and existence, but Western psychology does include the next stage of consciousness. In fact, in many ways, Western psychology characterizes the first five chakras more precisely than Eastern psychological systems.

MW: How would you describe this fifth stage of development?

JN: The Vishudda chakra is the chakra of inspiration and creativity, which, according to the ancient texts, is located in the throat and governs the organs of self-expression. This is the level of majestic wisdom, where the individual has direct access to divine power and to universal archetypal symbols within the unconscious which are part of the Spiritual Ground. At this stage, relationships are characterized by commitment to higher goals, what Maslow called self-actualization. Nothing is undertaken that does not foster spiritual growth, and the wisdom gained is based on experience, not faith.

Fifth chakra thinking enables a person to mentally soar above any system in order to contemplate the whole from a uniquely separate vantage point. Zen Buddhists call it "nonattachment," a kind of objective self-observation or witnessing of what is. One begins to see a larger picture and to grasp how life fits into the unfolding patterns of the world.

MW: Here one begins to deeply sense our interconnectedness to each other.

JN: Well, actually that begins at the fourth, or heart chakra. At the fifth, we begin to identify with the long-term aspirations of humanity as a whole, not simply with individuals who may be suffering. We feel compelled to seek the root causes of suffering, not merely to relieve it in the short term. Religious feelings shift from fear, as in third chakra religions, to awe as we recognize a direct connection to a guiding force and a willingness to surrender to that power as one's personal destiny. God is perceived as residing within the self, but there not yet a radical identification of self with deity.

MW: Who would you cite as examples of people who have reached this stage of consciousness?

JN: Einstein, Beethoven, Confucius, Darwin, Freud -- all broke through the restraints of conventional mentality to radically alter the course of human thought and history.

MW: No women?

JN: I'm sure that there have been a great many women who have reached or transcended this stage of development, but unfortunately, Western culture -- and to a large extent, Eastern culture too -- has tended to ignore women's contributions to the world. Eastern Tantric cultures tended to be less patriarchal, which is reflected in the chakra system's balanced perspective between the masculine (yang) and feminine (yin) principles of life. For example, few people evolve past the third chakra, which is yang and is characterized by competitive values and a warrior spirituality, typical of the patriarchal cultures of today. The fourth chakra, in contrast, represents the opening of the compassionate heart that is receptive to the suffering of the world, and is clearly feminine in nature. The fifth chakra reaffirms masculine values, while the intuitive receptivity of the sixth is feminine. Only when we reach the 7th chakra is the yin/yang dichotomy resolved. But there are very few people who actually reach these higher levels of consciousness.

MW: Since the next two chakras are so rarely experienced, I would imagine that they haven't been adequately addressed in terms of Western medicine and psychology.

JN: Western models tend to pathologize the two highest chakras, so that if a person were to open to such levels, even for a moment, his or her experience would either be ignored or characterized as some form of mental illness. In fact, when an individual's psyche prematurely opens to these higher chakras, the conscious energies involved can be extremely disruptive -- perhaps even triggering a severe life crisis. It is the difference between, say, madness and creative genius. But my point is this: there are many artists, poets, and sages who do tap into this level of creative or divine inspiration who are not mad, although they may seem so to persons centered at the lower chakras. There are others who could become so distraught by their inspirational visions as to commit suicide. Ann Sexton and Hemingway might be such examples, or F. Scott Fitzgerald, who seemed content to drink himself to death.

I think that it is essential for psychiatrists to reevaluate these individuals and to find better ways to understand the spiritual struggles that can ensue within profoundly gifted people. We need to distinguish spiritual awakenings from personality disorders, rather than obliterating the potentially liberating experience through drugs and inappropriate therapy.

MW: There are a number of physicians like Robert Turner and Francis Lu who are trying to get the American Psychiatric Association to include psychoreligious and psychospiritual problems in their diagnostic manual. With over three decades of clinical observation and research, the need for such a change seems overwhelmingly valid. The near-death experience is an example of a situation that falls outside our current medical understanding, yet has been substantially documented as a potentially valid growth experience. But it is difficult to change the system.

JN: I have discussed these new diagnostic developments with Drs. Lu and Turner, and I support their efforts to persuade our traditional colleagues to officially recognize them, although we can expect considerable resistance, particularly if we attempt to introduce those notions that are addressed in the two highest chakras, which fall outside of the paradigms of Western medicine. For instance, at the sixth chakra level we begin to see the emergence of psychic and parapsychological phenomena: ESP, telepathy, clairvoyance, precognition, psychokinesis -- all of which have been scientifically validated in university laboratories. But a person who has brief access to these levels is often considered delusional or mad.

MW: On the other hand, many people who claim to have these experiences are, in fact, delusional or mad, and are attempting avoid the problems they are facing inside. People, for example, who are functioning at a second chakra level -- the psychological level of magical thinking -- insist that their illusions are real, rather than seeing them as partial fantasies and desires, particularly if they have occasionally experienced some higher chakra phenomenon.

JN: Ken Wilber aptly named this failure to distinguish between transpersonal and pre-transpersonal levels the "Pre/Trans fallacy," an error that has long bedeviled the anti-psychiatry movement and its apologists such as R.D. Lang and Thomas Szasz. The important point is that one must possess a strong and whole ego before one can begin to transcend it. This is why I believe it is so important to develop fourth chakra consciousness -- the heart level -- since universal love stands at the doorway to authentic spiritual growth. By exercising empathy and compassion, we can begin to reach these higher levels without being shaken to our psychological cores.

MW: How would you characterize these higher levels of spiritual consciousness?

JN: The sixth, or Ajna chakra, has been called the "shamanic" chakra because at this level one has the ability to alter consciousness and reality at will in order to have direct access to universal knowledge. This is the level of benign sorcery, visionary power, and prophesy. The adept might withdraw from worldly commitments and relationships in order to study the secret knowledge of the mystics. Although sixth chakra capabilities may leak into lower levels of consciousness, this level can only be fully realized after many years of study and spiritual practice, such as meditation.

People who lack grounding in the first five chakras are often frightened by spontaneous breakthroughs from this level, which may incite a rapid regression to the second chakra. What confuses most Western thinkers is that most people experience these capabilities erratically and inconsistently. The difference is that a sixth chakra adept gains full control over these powers and calls upon them at will.

MW: There are many spiritual teachers who warn the student against becoming enamored of these powers, suggesting that there are even higher levels of consciousness to strive for.

JN: They have a point, although there is much that this level has to offer, for the higher compassion of the Ajna chakra embraces not just humanity and all living things, but all of creation. The person at this level of consciousness recognizes that everything is a manifestation of a single universal Spirit. A sixth chakra seer often maintains an unassuming lifestyle, the better to quietly uplift the consciousness of humanity from within. But this does not mean that she lives in perpetual transcendent rapture, isolated from the world and its suffering. Such a person no longer needs to renounce the world; she only severs her ego's attachments to it. With this freedom she lives in society with unblemished integrity, committed to the benefit of all. Examples of sixth chakra adepts might include Swami Muktananda, the medieval physician Paracelsus, or the countless shamans and sorceresses who mastered arcane wisdom to become healers for their peoples.

MW: And now we come to the most elusive of the chakras, the Sahasrara, or unity chakra.

JN: The seventh and final chakra represents the crowning evolutionary goal of humanity, the culmination of our long and painful exile from, and triumphant return to, our Source. It is the culmination of a life exceptionally well-lived, the fulfillment of humankind's highest potential. The hallmark of this chakra is the mystical experience, which has been described with remarkable similarity by saints, sages, yogis, and contemplatives throughout the ages as an overwhelming recognition of absolute unity of Self with the divine presence. Although only a handful of human beings have authentically reached this level, it can occur fleetingly to ordinary people centered in lower chakras. When it does, it inevitably transforms their lives, usually opening them to the possibility of resuming spiritual growth.

MW: But as you said, most of society is presently functioning at the level of the third chakra -- self-centered, materialistic, struggling for identity, autonomy, and personal power. What do you suggest we do?

JN: To achieve both psychological and spiritual maturity, we must heal the centuries-old split between East and West, between science and spirituality, and between psychology and religion. And if Western religions are to regain their relevance, they must return to developing and teaching spiritual technology -- those time-proven and culture-relevant techniques for expanding human consciousness. The main point I'm making is that neither religion nor science alone can help realign people towards an upward course of human evolution. Science has made profound contributions, but for all its wonders, it has failed to find a solution for humanity's penchant for war, nor for directing more love and empathy to our child raising, nor for fostering compassion in our healers. Yet it is my hope that by affirming the universal love and compassion of the heart chakra, we can reach a turning point in our spiritual and evolutionary growth, reuniting us with our Source.

Mark Robert Waldman is a therapist and author of nine books and anthologies, including The Art of Staying Together, The Spirit of Writing, Dreamscaping and the four-volume series, Archetypes of the Collective Unconscious: Shadow, Healer, Seeker, Lover. He was the founding editor of the Transpersonal Review and is chairman of the Los Angeles Transpersonal Interest Group. He may be reached E-mail: markwaldman@cyberhotline.com